Scripts that Sell with John Chapin

[00:00:03] So you ready to talk some sales?

[00:00:05] Yeah, anytime. Ready to talk anything.

[00:00:07] You know I did three years in private in Boston so

[00:00:10] I would probably talk about anything but yeah let's talk some sales.

[00:00:14] You did improv like stand up improv on the stage?

[00:00:17] Yeah a little bit, yeah.

[00:00:18] Okay. I saw that one and one of the emails going back and forth so

[00:00:21] I bet that you know I bet having that has helped you in the sales world

[00:00:26] as far as being you know on your toes always having an answer to things.

[00:00:31] Yeah well I did it more for speaking.

[00:00:34] When I got into speaking I had somebody tell me who was like a world champion

[00:00:39] public speaker they said you want to do improv because what happened is

[00:00:43] I can get up there now in front of a crowd and I can get stuck

[00:00:48] and forget what I'm going to say and I just keep going

[00:00:51] and no one even knows until I think of what I was going to say

[00:00:55] so it's been really good from that standpoint.

[00:00:57] I think it feeds into what you're saying is about the constant learning

[00:01:01] stuff that was outside of your industry you know that kind of feeds into that

[00:01:05] so I thought that was interesting when I was reading your articles.

[00:01:08] There was a group when I was going to college called Improv Broadway

[00:01:12] so they kind of did improv but they would get up and like sing an entire musical

[00:01:16] right on stage and like do this whole thing they were pretty good.

[00:01:19] Okay.

[00:01:20] Was yours like comedy improv like back and forth like comedy games

[00:01:24] like improv Broadway type stuff or was it speaking specifically?

[00:01:28] Yeah no it was yeah it was the first one you mentioned.

[00:01:32] It was basically on stage with a bunch of other people

[00:01:35] and we would ask the audience for you know give us like you know just

[00:01:40] give us some cues whatever you know give us like a type of a building

[00:01:45] or something or a business or something and they come up with some things

[00:01:50] and then we just kind of work we go okay and then we just go based upon

[00:01:54] the information they gave us we just start talking about that subject

[00:01:58] or whatever so.

[00:01:59] Do you recommend sales people go through improv training?

[00:02:02] You know I don't know that they really have to like I said for me it was

[00:02:06] because of my speaking I was going to get up in front of people and be

[00:02:09] speaking and my speaking career and I was already doing that so from

[00:02:12] that standpoint it was good but hey look when you're in sales

[00:02:16] it's good to be able to think it's good to be able to think on your feet

[00:02:19] hopefully as a sales person you know if you've been at it for any length

[00:02:24] of time hopefully you've done it enough so that you've been in

[00:02:29] particular sales situations and you're getting particular objections

[00:02:33] or you're getting particular questions or whatever hopefully you've

[00:02:36] practiced those hopefully those aren't off the cuff where you have

[00:02:40] to improv you know someone you know I love when I'll walk into a group

[00:02:45] that I'm going to start working with and usually I built some rapport

[00:02:49] with them ahead of time so I've sent out a questionnaire I've talked

[00:02:53] to them on the phone and then we'll sit down for like our first

[00:02:56] group meeting with the sales team and so I usually know them

[00:02:59] pretty well at that point and they they know I have their best interest

[00:03:03] in mind and I'm just trying to help them and I'll ask them if

[00:03:06] I can pick on them and one of the first things I'll do and a sales

[00:03:09] meeting is I'll say I'll pick one of the veterans and I'll say I can

[00:03:13] get it cheaper down the street what's your answer and that answer

[00:03:17] better not come off as improv which it usually does because usually

[00:03:21] the first sound out of their mouth is ah followed by you know 30 to

[00:03:26] 45 seconds or 60 seconds of verbal diarrhea until I cut him off

[00:03:30] yeah I say one of the things is you got to be scripted like

[00:03:35] you got to know so acting might be good from that standpoint

[00:03:39] you know and that's one thing too people talk about scripts right

[00:03:43] oh well if I'm scripted I'm going to sound like I'm reading

[00:03:46] and this or that or whatever it is and they have some people

[00:03:49] have objections about scripting it's like look pick your favorite

[00:03:52] movie pick your favorite scene it is scripted it has been

[00:03:58] practiced rehearsed everything over and over and over again

[00:04:04] no matter how off the cuff that looks and how good it looks

[00:04:08] that thing has been practiced over and over and over again

[00:04:11] I say you know you got to do the same thing with sales if you're

[00:04:14] getting whatever objections you're getting whatever questions

[00:04:17] you're getting you got to be role playing those with people

[00:04:21] you got to be practicing those you got to be in the car

[00:04:23] practicing those you got to be doing all that stuff and

[00:04:26] you know if you've been at it 510 15 years you may not

[00:04:30] be doing it as intensely but at the same time you got to know

[00:04:34] exactly what's coming out of your mouth they say I should be

[00:04:37] able to wake somebody up at three in the morning and give

[00:04:39] them the five six seven eight common objections they get

[00:04:43] and they those answers should roll right off the top more

[00:04:46] extemporaneous approach yeah yeah more yeah more if we're

[00:04:50] going to relate it to being on stage or more of you

[00:04:54] know what you see in Hollywood and more of well and even

[00:04:57] the musicals you know not the improv ones right but the ones

[00:05:00] where they practiced and they've rehearsed and they know

[00:05:04] their dance moves and they know what they're going to say

[00:05:07] and how they're going to say it and everything else I mean

[00:05:10] you want to be working on that stuff way ahead of time

[00:05:12] I mean why does every team from Pop Warner football

[00:05:16] Pee Wee football all the way to the pros why do they

[00:05:20] all practice that's why and it's funny with sales people

[00:05:24] how they don't want to sound bad in front of their peers

[00:05:28] and a lot of times that they would literally rather be out

[00:05:31] in front of a prospect and fall on their face and sound

[00:05:36] stupid because they can leave and they don't have their

[00:05:39] after see the person again they'd rather have that happen

[00:05:42] then and be in front of their peers looking like an idiot

[00:05:46] and I'm like you got to get over that you got to be

[00:05:49] practicing that role playing that you should have a role

[00:05:51] play buddy or you know somebody you're doing it with

[00:05:54] or you know practice with family practice with whatever

[00:05:58] it is by yourself like I said if you're in the car

[00:06:00] you know I've been practicing stuff in the car when

[00:06:03] you're going over but it's the same thing with speaking

[00:06:06] and same thing with speeches I've been in the car before

[00:06:08] where let's say I'm with my girlfriend and all of a sudden

[00:06:11] you know I'm in my head practicing my speech

[00:06:14] and she asked me a question I'd be like

[00:06:17] what you know which isn't always great for a relationship

[00:06:21] but the point is I'm practicing you know and there

[00:06:25] I've had friends who have done it and you know their spouse

[00:06:29] or significant other asked some question they're like

[00:06:31] practicing practicing you know they're in their head

[00:06:34] the whole time and the best the best are just really good

[00:06:38] at they know exactly what they're going to say how

[00:06:41] they're going to say it when they're going to say it

[00:06:43] because they've just practiced and role-played it over

[00:06:45] and over again.

[00:06:46] And I think there's a difference between being scripted

[00:06:49] and preparation and if you're prepared

[00:06:53] and you know the objections that you could possibly get

[00:06:57] I mean you learn that over time as you are in front

[00:07:00] of different people you start hearing these things

[00:07:03] but if you prepare and you start beforehand to come

[00:07:06] up with the answers to these objections to me

[00:07:09] that's a whole different deal than just saying I'm

[00:07:11] reading off a script.

[00:07:12] I think what you're saying is hey you have a script

[00:07:15] but it's built over time from the preparation

[00:07:18] and the experience that you've had am I right in saying that?

[00:07:21] Yeah so you know scripting isn't how to be the top

[00:07:26] sales rep in your industry by John Chapin

[00:07:30] like that isn't scripting.

[00:07:32] Scripting isn't well it is right and scripting

[00:07:36] is the person who calls you on the phone

[00:07:39] and sounds like they're reading something.

[00:07:42] Yeah is that scripted?

[00:07:43] Yeah okay yeah you don't want to sound like that though

[00:07:46] you want to be at a point where you know it so well

[00:07:49] that and of course if you're in person

[00:07:52] you can't be looking at the script anyway

[00:07:54] so you better know it and if you're on the phone

[00:07:57] that's fine.

[00:07:58] I used to use scripts all the time

[00:08:00] when I was on the phone primarily my first job

[00:08:03] which was I was a stockbroker

[00:08:05] but I was doing all my business over the phone primarily

[00:08:07] and I had scripts for everything

[00:08:09] I've got to talk to the wife

[00:08:10] I've got to think about it

[00:08:11] I've got to whatever

[00:08:12] and my transition was when I come to the end of my presentation

[00:08:16] and I close and they'd say

[00:08:19] I'm sorry I have to talk to my wife

[00:08:21] my transition phrase was

[00:08:23] you know I definitely understand that

[00:08:25] meanwhile we get the tab with wife

[00:08:27] I definitely understand that

[00:08:29] and at the same time

[00:08:30] all my clients who are married

[00:08:32] and did-did-did-did-did-did-did

[00:08:34] and I had it there as a base

[00:08:37] but even the stuff that I was reading

[00:08:40] you can practice with things

[00:08:42] so that you don't sound like you're reading

[00:08:44] you know they sound like you're reading

[00:08:46] not sound like you're reading

[00:08:47] but the goal is to know the stuff so well

[00:08:50] and you know our manufacturers reps

[00:08:52] who I was the manufacturers rep for Diebold

[00:08:54] bank and equipment

[00:08:55] and so for 10 years I was out on the road

[00:08:58] and everything else

[00:08:59] and when you're out on the road

[00:09:00] you're not sitting there with scripts

[00:09:02] I mean the beginning I might have

[00:09:05] okay they're building a branch

[00:09:07] they're designing a branch

[00:09:08] so I've got to ask certain questions

[00:09:10] look if I have to ask the questions

[00:09:12] I have the questions

[00:09:13] and I'm sitting there and I say

[00:09:15] well I have some questions for you or whatever

[00:09:17] oh well what is that

[00:09:19] you're gonna read off the question

[00:09:20] salespeople always think

[00:09:22] like people are gonna say

[00:09:24] oh what do you read in

[00:09:25] what do you visit

[00:09:26] and it never happens

[00:09:27] but you know I said look

[00:09:28] if you're there

[00:09:29] and you need a script

[00:09:31] or you need the scripted questions

[00:09:33] because you're brand new

[00:09:34] or whatever it is

[00:09:35] and you don't know what to ask yet

[00:09:37] you pull them out

[00:09:38] you just start asking

[00:09:39] if they say something

[00:09:41] you say look yeah

[00:09:42] I've just got my questions

[00:09:43] that I need to ask

[00:09:44] I want to make sure

[00:09:45] I don't forget anything

[00:09:46] so I write them down

[00:09:48] this is it

[00:09:49] and just make sure

[00:09:50] you don't have anything written on there

[00:09:51] like this guy's a jerk

[00:09:52] or anything else

[00:09:54] you show it to him

[00:09:55] but I just show people

[00:09:56] oh yeah

[00:09:57] so for the new people out there

[00:09:59] who are maybe learning something

[00:10:01] or you're again

[00:10:03] there's a list of questions

[00:10:04] you need to go through

[00:10:06] if there is something

[00:10:07] you need to have there

[00:10:08] that you have to read

[00:10:10] to kind of make sure

[00:10:11] while you're with the prospect in person

[00:10:13] just do that

[00:10:14] just tell them

[00:10:15] say I have some questions here

[00:10:17] to cover

[00:10:18] and again

[00:10:19] everybody says oh yeah it's fine

[00:10:21] yeah and to take a note

[00:10:23] when you're in front of a prospect

[00:10:25] I think that's a good thing

[00:10:26] because there's always

[00:10:27] follow-up typically

[00:10:28] that happens on a sales call

[00:10:30] you know

[00:10:31] you don't want to be that sales guy

[00:10:32] that comes in

[00:10:33] and just sits there

[00:10:34] and you talk

[00:10:35] and like you said

[00:10:36] have diary of the mouth

[00:10:37] and then

[00:10:38] he asks you to do a couple things

[00:10:40] and then you don't write them down

[00:10:41] and you're like okay

[00:10:42] we'll see you

[00:10:43] and then the next time you come in

[00:10:44] they're like what about

[00:10:45] the two things I asked you to help me with

[00:10:47] I mean

[00:10:48] you're not bringing value at that point

[00:10:49] so writing stuff down

[00:10:50] I think is a positive

[00:10:51] oh you

[00:10:52] absolutely have to take notes

[00:10:54] you know then

[00:10:55] again I'll get the question

[00:10:56] from sales people which

[00:10:58] well

[00:10:59] what do you say

[00:11:01] if people ask you

[00:11:02] you know

[00:11:03] it's like look

[00:11:04] all this stuff's common sense

[00:11:06] you just say look

[00:11:07] I'm writing down what you're saying

[00:11:09] so I make sure I don't forget anything

[00:11:11] and so I make sure

[00:11:12] you know I have everything covered

[00:11:13] that we're talking about

[00:11:14] simple right

[00:11:15] people get worried about

[00:11:16] oh they're gonna think I'm reading

[00:11:18] oh they're gonna think

[00:11:19] I'm taking notes

[00:11:20] I'm not paying attention to what

[00:11:22] you gotta get over all that stuff

[00:11:24] and just say hey

[00:11:25] if you're with somebody

[00:11:26] you know it's important stuff

[00:11:28] they're saying

[00:11:29] you gotta write that stuff down

[00:11:30] I don't know if you've ever had

[00:11:32] you know wait or waitress right

[00:11:33] well we all have over the years

[00:11:35] where you get some

[00:11:36] most of them write the stuff down

[00:11:38] but then every once in a while

[00:11:40] you'll get that one who's

[00:11:41] impressing everybody

[00:11:42] and they've got eight orders

[00:11:44] around the table

[00:11:45] and they're not taking notes

[00:11:46] yeah I hate that

[00:11:49] and they've practiced

[00:11:51] on

[00:11:52] they've gotten really good at that

[00:11:54] they've worked at that

[00:11:55] they've practiced

[00:11:56] and everything comes out well

[00:11:58] I'll tell you what

[00:11:59] if they're not writing that down

[00:12:00] that everything better

[00:12:02] come out perfectly

[00:12:04] because if it doesn't

[00:12:05] then in the future

[00:12:06] they gotta be writing it down

[00:12:07] but yeah with sales people

[00:12:09] you just don't want to be

[00:12:11] sitting there

[00:12:12] I mean you gotta make sure

[00:12:13] you've got a couple of pens with

[00:12:15] you right just in case one

[00:12:17] doesn't work

[00:12:18] you know make sure

[00:12:19] that you know depending upon

[00:12:21] who you're talking to too

[00:12:23] typically I wouldn't have

[00:12:24] like the big pen

[00:12:25] I was taking notes with

[00:12:26] but because I dealt

[00:12:28] with banks and credit unions

[00:12:30] most of them had pens

[00:12:32] and a lot of times too

[00:12:33] once you took orders

[00:12:34] or whatever

[00:12:35] and you were dealing with them

[00:12:36] for a while

[00:12:37] they give you one of their pens

[00:12:39] one of their fancy pens

[00:12:40] I literally had

[00:12:42] all the pens at home

[00:12:43] lined up

[00:12:44] I had my day

[00:12:45] like okay I'm going to

[00:12:47] Cambridge Savings Bank

[00:12:48] I'm going to Middlesex

[00:12:49] Savings Bank

[00:12:50] here here here

[00:12:51] I would take out all the pens

[00:12:53] for the appointments that day

[00:12:55] and when I was in the appointment

[00:12:57] I was using their pen

[00:12:59] to write this stuff down

[00:13:01] I like it

[00:13:02] Did people comment on the pen?

[00:13:03] Did they notice?

[00:13:04] Yeah I mean sometimes

[00:13:06] they might say something right

[00:13:07] but the other thing was

[00:13:09] we at Debold

[00:13:10] we had really nice pens

[00:13:12] too that we used to use

[00:13:14] and that we give out

[00:13:15] every once in a while

[00:13:16] or whatever

[00:13:17] I mean they were like 40

[00:13:18] $45 pens

[00:13:19] and they had a nice

[00:13:20] you know finish on them

[00:13:21] and they said Debold on them

[00:13:22] or whatever

[00:13:23] and I'll tell you

[00:13:25] whenever somebody would say

[00:13:28] something like what

[00:13:29] they'd be signing an order

[00:13:31] and they'd say

[00:13:32] wow it's a really nice pen

[00:13:34] I'd say it's yours

[00:13:36] keep it

[00:13:37] I give them the pen

[00:13:38] yeah so again it depends

[00:13:40] I always say though

[00:13:41] you're not having somebody

[00:13:42] sign a million dollar order

[00:13:44] or five million dollar order

[00:13:45] or ten million dollar order

[00:13:46] with a big pen

[00:13:48] make sure it's a nice

[00:13:49] nice pen

[00:13:50] doesn't have to necessarily

[00:13:51] be a mount blanc

[00:13:52] but you know

[00:13:53] it can be

[00:13:54] if that's what you're dealing with

[00:13:56] it's all the audience right

[00:13:58] so who are you calling on

[00:14:00] so you know

[00:14:02] when I was meeting

[00:14:03] with contractors

[00:14:04] with a bank

[00:14:06] it would be

[00:14:07] you know to go over the building

[00:14:09] go over blueprints

[00:14:10] stuff like that

[00:14:11] I was dressed probably like this

[00:14:13] when I went in to meet with the bankers

[00:14:15] it was suit and tie

[00:14:17] and it's the same like

[00:14:19] if I go out now

[00:14:20] and I'm speaking

[00:14:21] if I'm speaking to a bunch of heavy equipment dealers

[00:14:23] John Deere, Kubota case

[00:14:25] I've pretty much got

[00:14:27] a shirt like this on

[00:14:29] with a sport coat

[00:14:30] if I'm going in

[00:14:31] I'm talking in the insurance industry

[00:14:33] which I will be

[00:14:34] that's Tuesday, Thursday

[00:14:36] and the following Tuesday

[00:14:37] I'm suit and tie

[00:14:39] so you will be judged

[00:14:41] all day long

[00:14:42] by what you're wearing

[00:14:44] the pen you're using

[00:14:46] whether or not you have bad breath

[00:14:48] how you're groomed

[00:14:49] like all this stuff

[00:14:50] affects everything right

[00:14:52] so it's part of the thing

[00:14:54] but yeah for me

[00:14:55] like I said with the pens

[00:14:57] that was just one little thing

[00:14:58] I did you know

[00:14:59] I didn't want to be

[00:15:00] in Cambridge savings bank

[00:15:02] with a pen from Cambridge

[00:15:05] Trust

[00:15:06] that they would notice

[00:15:07] and I think a lot of them do notice

[00:15:09] not you know

[00:15:10] all of them comment on it

[00:15:11] or whatever some of them do

[00:15:13] but it's one of the little things

[00:15:15] but yeah people notice

[00:15:16] the little things

[00:15:17] well what about developing scripts

[00:15:19] so you're talking about using scripts

[00:15:21] I imagine that your delivery

[00:15:23] is only as good as your script is

[00:15:25] right so how do you

[00:15:26] like who in a company should be developing the scripts

[00:15:29] or what's the process to get a script

[00:15:30] where it's what you need

[00:15:31] yeah so what I do is

[00:15:33] I take

[00:15:34] you want the top

[00:15:36] I mean hopefully if you're in a company

[00:15:38] and you've got salespeople

[00:15:40] you've got top salespeople right

[00:15:42] and the top salespeople

[00:15:44] aren't always you know

[00:15:46] they're usually really good at everything

[00:15:48] at cold calling

[00:15:50] and it getting through the gatekeeper

[00:15:52] to the decision maker

[00:15:53] and then getting decision makers attention

[00:15:55] then doing a presentation

[00:15:56] but you might have some that have different strengths

[00:15:59] in different areas

[00:16:00] so you want to pick the people who are the best

[00:16:03] at like getting through the gatekeeper

[00:16:06] okay what do you say

[00:16:08] what do you do

[00:16:10] to get through the gatekeeper

[00:16:11] how do you do that

[00:16:13] and you're recording that

[00:16:14] so just to give you an idea

[00:16:15] when I became a stock broker

[00:16:18] there were 52 offices around the country

[00:16:21] I was lucky enough to be in the number one office

[00:16:24] at all 52

[00:16:25] I was in Clearwater Florida

[00:16:27] at the time speaking to Florida

[00:16:29] I was working out of there

[00:16:30] and we had about 3,000 brokers

[00:16:34] and we had the top

[00:16:35] we had five of the top 20

[00:16:37] we had number one

[00:16:38] we had number two

[00:16:39] and then we had three more guys in the top 20

[00:16:42] so what I would do is

[00:16:44] once I started

[00:16:46] and I got my presentation

[00:16:49] from one of the guys that was doing a presentation

[00:16:52] for a particular stock

[00:16:54] and I learned that presentation

[00:16:55] but I had it there too

[00:16:56] so I could kind of read it

[00:16:58] and I didn't sound like I was reading it

[00:16:59] and I get to the end of that

[00:17:01] and I close

[00:17:02] and the first day I'm doing a presentation

[00:17:04] the first person says

[00:17:06] I got to talk to my wife

[00:17:07] okay so I set an appointment

[00:17:09] to call them back

[00:17:10] and then at the end of the day

[00:17:11] the market closes 4 o'clock

[00:17:13] I go into Bob's office

[00:17:14] and I said hey Bob

[00:17:15] and I have a tape recorder

[00:17:17] it was this big thing

[00:17:18] I said Bob

[00:17:20] somebody says they have to talk to their wife

[00:17:22] what do you say

[00:17:23] boom

[00:17:24] recorder

[00:17:25] I go into Gabe's office

[00:17:27] Gabe

[00:17:28] somebody says they have to talk to their wife

[00:17:29] what do you say

[00:17:30] boom

[00:17:31] I go to all five people

[00:17:33] I get all their answers

[00:17:34] I go home at night

[00:17:36] I'm writing this stuff down

[00:17:38] this is in the 80s

[00:17:40] this is before the fancy computers

[00:17:42] and printing stuff out or whatever

[00:17:44] I'm writing this stuff down

[00:17:46] and so now I have wife

[00:17:48] and I have five answers

[00:17:50] along with closes

[00:17:52] after that

[00:17:53] so call the guy back

[00:17:54] and I go yeah you know

[00:17:56] you know my wife isn't real thrilled about it

[00:17:58] and go look Joe

[00:17:59] I completely understand

[00:18:00] I don't have any clients who jump up and down

[00:18:03] you know his wife's jump up and down

[00:18:05] about them buying stock

[00:18:06] okay

[00:18:07] did it did it did it did it did it

[00:18:09] go through the whole thing

[00:18:10] okay

[00:18:11] get to the end

[00:18:13] verify that close that whatever

[00:18:15] that doesn't work

[00:18:16] but it did

[00:18:17] so now it's

[00:18:19] yeah no I know

[00:18:20] you know what though

[00:18:21] I want to think about it

[00:18:22] okay

[00:18:23] well at four o'clock

[00:18:24] Bob

[00:18:25] Gabe

[00:18:26] three other people

[00:18:27] at home

[00:18:28] writing it down

[00:18:29] call the guy back

[00:18:31] no I know I still got to think about it

[00:18:33] look I definitely understand that

[00:18:35] at the same time

[00:18:36] you're not going to know any more than you do right now

[00:18:38] and did it did it

[00:18:39] I go through the whole thing

[00:18:41] get to the end close

[00:18:42] and then you get another objection

[00:18:44] you know

[00:18:45] or you eventually close it or whatever

[00:18:47] so you want to find the successful people

[00:18:49] who are

[00:18:50] whatever they're saying

[00:18:51] whatever they're doing

[00:18:52] that's what you want to write down

[00:18:54] that's what you want to practice

[00:18:56] that that's

[00:18:57] that's what you want to emulate

[00:18:59] does that make sense

[00:19:00] yeah I didn't you know

[00:19:01] when I first started in

[00:19:02] in 97

[00:19:03] so my dad started our

[00:19:05] manufacturer's rep firm

[00:19:07] and I remember

[00:19:08] I could you know

[00:19:09] he talks loud like I do

[00:19:11] so you could hear him all over the office

[00:19:13] and if there was something going on

[00:19:15] let's just say there was an issue that he was working through

[00:19:18] with a particular customer

[00:19:19] or one of our manufacturers

[00:19:20] I would go

[00:19:22] and I would just sit outside his door

[00:19:24] I didn't want to sit in there

[00:19:25] because sometimes that affects how they

[00:19:27] you know how they

[00:19:28] how they react

[00:19:29] how they answer questions

[00:19:30] I would sit by his door

[00:19:31] and just listen

[00:19:32] and I could hear the whole conversation

[00:19:35] and it's amazing how much I learned

[00:19:38] just sitting there

[00:19:40] listening to see how he handled the situation

[00:19:42] and that was the best classroom

[00:19:44] that I ever

[00:19:45] could have ever sat in

[00:19:47] and it was just like you said

[00:19:48] listening to some people who had experience

[00:19:50] and just

[00:19:51] picking up those tips

[00:19:53] understanding that these guys

[00:19:55] had seen this a million times

[00:19:58] and they knew what they were doing

[00:20:00] so I agree with you

[00:20:01] I think that was a heck of a way to learn

[00:20:04] sounds like for you as well as me

[00:20:06] Yeah and that's the thing

[00:20:07] I mean look

[00:20:08] if you're going to

[00:20:09] let's say you want to be a quarterback right

[00:20:11] what are you going to do

[00:20:12] you know somebody says

[00:20:13] okay we'll give you

[00:20:14] and hopefully we're not

[00:20:15] offending too many people with the names we use

[00:20:17] right but

[00:20:18] you know Tom Brady

[00:20:19] I think of

[00:20:20] Peyton Manning

[00:20:21] whoever it is right

[00:20:22] you're going to find Tom Brady

[00:20:23] Peyton Manning

[00:20:24] whomever

[00:20:25] and

[00:20:26] you're going to

[00:20:27] go to them

[00:20:28] and say

[00:20:29] what do I do

[00:20:30] what do I you know

[00:20:31] how do I study

[00:20:32] how do I work

[00:20:33] how do I whatever

[00:20:34] and you're going to follow them

[00:20:35] same thing

[00:20:36] right so

[00:20:37] you know

[00:20:38] you might have the high school

[00:20:39] quarterback kid

[00:20:40] and maybe you're

[00:20:41] in junior high

[00:20:42] and you know

[00:20:43] the high school kids

[00:20:44] going to help you or something

[00:20:45] that's great

[00:20:46] but if you can get Tom Brady

[00:20:47] or you can get

[00:20:48] Peyton Manning

[00:20:49] but yeah

[00:20:50] people been through it

[00:20:51] your dad was in business

[00:20:52] your dad had survived business

[00:20:53] so obviously

[00:20:54] he'd been successful

[00:20:55] so okay

[00:20:56] what does he do in this situation

[00:20:58] if he's successful in that situation

[00:21:00] if I do the same thing

[00:21:02] say the same stuff

[00:21:04] I'm probably going to be successful too

[00:21:06] it's the same thing

[00:21:07] it's like with those five guys

[00:21:09] that I followed

[00:21:10] it took a while

[00:21:11] you know for me to make mistakes

[00:21:13] and stumble over stuff

[00:21:14] and whatever

[00:21:15] took a few months

[00:21:16] but eventually

[00:21:18] I got to a point where

[00:21:20] I was number one in the country

[00:21:21] it took probably about a year

[00:21:23] for me to get there

[00:21:24] total

[00:21:25] but

[00:21:26] you know

[00:21:27] two, three months in

[00:21:28] I mean it was like

[00:21:29] it was brutal

[00:21:30] I'm getting beat up

[00:21:32] I'm getting hung up on

[00:21:33] I'm doing all that

[00:21:34] but at the same time

[00:21:36] again I was getting success

[00:21:38] here and there

[00:21:39] I was starting to

[00:21:40] win some of these battles

[00:21:42] and again yeah

[00:21:43] it's just

[00:21:44] if you have an example

[00:21:45] you can follow

[00:21:46] if you have a mentor

[00:21:47] who's really successful

[00:21:48] that you can follow

[00:21:50] like you did with your dad

[00:21:51] I worked with my dad

[00:21:52] for ten years

[00:21:53] my dad

[00:21:54] he was the first ATMs in New England in 1976

[00:21:57] against NCR

[00:21:59] and some other IBM

[00:22:01] some pretty heavy competition

[00:22:03] so my dad

[00:22:04] was the number one rep

[00:22:06] in New England

[00:22:07] for over 40 years

[00:22:08] for IBM

[00:22:09] and deep old banking equipment

[00:22:10] so I learned from him

[00:22:11] you know

[00:22:12] he taught me his cold call

[00:22:13] here's how you walk in

[00:22:14] you don't go in

[00:22:15] with a leather

[00:22:16] you know

[00:22:17] at the time

[00:22:18] salesmen

[00:22:19] like in the

[00:22:20] banking industry

[00:22:21] they were going in

[00:22:22] with like their brief cases

[00:22:23] and stuff

[00:22:24] he'd walk in with a manila envelope

[00:22:26] with like some information

[00:22:28] half the people you walked in on a cold call

[00:22:30] they thought they were getting served

[00:22:32] because

[00:22:33] you looked like a lawyer

[00:22:35] but you know

[00:22:36] what did it do

[00:22:37] it didn't bring up

[00:22:38] that automatic defense response

[00:22:40] that wall right

[00:22:41] because people are like

[00:22:42] oh crap

[00:22:43] like who is this

[00:22:44] and you just didn't come across

[00:22:45] as the typical sales person

[00:22:47] but my dad learned that

[00:22:48] in IBM training

[00:22:50] back in the

[00:22:51] back in the early 60s

[00:22:52] you know I mean

[00:22:53] they really taught people

[00:22:54] how to sell

[00:22:55] like they went through

[00:22:56] and their whole thing

[00:22:57] was role play right

[00:22:58] so they were in Ohio

[00:23:00] for

[00:23:01] three months

[00:23:03] and all they were doing

[00:23:05] they did some product stuff

[00:23:07] but a lot of stuff

[00:23:08] they did was sales training

[00:23:09] it was role playing

[00:23:10] it was how do you dress

[00:23:12] it was the white IBM shirt

[00:23:14] it was you know

[00:23:15] making sure

[00:23:16] everything's tightened up

[00:23:17] you know that

[00:23:18] the tie is

[00:23:19] all the way up

[00:23:20] to the top

[00:23:21] it's you know your shoes are

[00:23:23] shined like everything's perfect

[00:23:25] right

[00:23:26] they went through that whole thing

[00:23:27] and then

[00:23:28] when he got back

[00:23:29] he still had to go around

[00:23:31] with his manager

[00:23:32] in a top sales rep

[00:23:34] a mentor

[00:23:35] for another three months

[00:23:37] on calls

[00:23:38] it was six months

[00:23:40] of training

[00:23:41] and talking

[00:23:42] and talking through sales situations

[00:23:44] and everything

[00:23:45] before they let them

[00:23:46] go out on his own

[00:23:47] you know so these days

[00:23:49] you know you walk into a company

[00:23:51] and you ask them about sales training

[00:23:53] I mean any training they do

[00:23:55] with new sales people

[00:23:56] is typically product training

[00:23:58] that's how they don't

[00:23:59] train them on itself

[00:24:00] yes product training

[00:24:01] here's your laptop

[00:24:02] here's your customer list

[00:24:04] good luck

[00:24:05] I mean that's

[00:24:06] typically what we see

[00:24:08] in this business

[00:24:09] and I can tell you

[00:24:11] it's across the board

[00:24:12] like every industry

[00:24:14] it just amazes me

[00:24:15] like I walk into every industry

[00:24:17] but what does every industry have in common?

[00:24:20] people

[00:24:21] right

[00:24:22] so people are doing the same things

[00:24:25] and they're you know

[00:24:26] learning from the same people

[00:24:27] or they're doing whatever

[00:24:28] and it's just it's crazy

[00:24:30] I mean even when I went to Debold

[00:24:32] it was all product training

[00:24:34] we literally did zero sales training

[00:24:36] when I went

[00:24:37] I had four weeks

[00:24:39] out in Canton, Ohio

[00:24:41] of training

[00:24:43] and it was all product training

[00:24:45] it was one week was ATMs

[00:24:47] one week was Waltz

[00:24:48] another week was video alarm

[00:24:50] it was all product training

[00:24:52] wasn't any sales training

[00:24:53] if you've been taking a step back further

[00:24:55] you know once you get to your

[00:24:57] to your first job

[00:24:58] or you're you know

[00:24:59] the start of your career

[00:25:00] taking a step further

[00:25:01] back is you know

[00:25:03] at school

[00:25:04] at NC State

[00:25:05] well I was in the business school

[00:25:06] at state

[00:25:07] and the closest thing that we got

[00:25:09] to any kind of like

[00:25:10] true like sales training

[00:25:11] was marketing

[00:25:12] I mean sales was just

[00:25:14] something that you just had to

[00:25:16] kind of pick up on your own

[00:25:18] but I think Florida State

[00:25:19] actually has a professional selling

[00:25:21] curriculum within their

[00:25:23] business school

[00:25:24] and we've got one of our manufacturers

[00:25:26] that has been

[00:25:27] tapping that for

[00:25:29] new recruits

[00:25:31] and bringing them in

[00:25:32] and going through the program

[00:25:33] so they've already got a good base

[00:25:35] from the sales piece

[00:25:37] that are being taught at Florida State

[00:25:38] and then they're coming in

[00:25:40] and jumping right in

[00:25:41] and they're ahead of the game

[00:25:42] I think it goes back to not just

[00:25:44] the company's not

[00:25:46] training folks

[00:25:47] it goes back to the schools

[00:25:48] and you know there's a lot of people

[00:25:50] that when they leave

[00:25:51] they leave college

[00:25:52] they're going to get into some sort of sales career

[00:25:54] and at the end of the day

[00:25:55] no matter what you do

[00:25:57] you're going to have to sell

[00:25:58] at some point

[00:25:59] whether you're

[00:26:00] you know an engineer

[00:26:01] on an engineering team

[00:26:02] whether you're a

[00:26:04] you know a CFO

[00:26:05] a CEO

[00:26:06] you've got to sell

[00:26:07] to board members

[00:26:08] to peers

[00:26:09] whatever

[00:26:10] internal selling

[00:26:11] sometimes is more prevalent

[00:26:13] than you know external selling

[00:26:15] right well that's the thing

[00:26:17] so now

[00:26:18] there are schools

[00:26:19] that are popping up

[00:26:20] right with the

[00:26:22] with the sales

[00:26:23] actually some even have a sales major

[00:26:25] some have a sales minor in that

[00:26:27] so Southern New Hampshire University

[00:26:30] I know because they're local

[00:26:31] they're fairly close

[00:26:32] like they were using my sales book

[00:26:34] and they use it

[00:26:35] so you know they would have me

[00:26:37] come up there like once a semester

[00:26:39] to kind of meet with their people

[00:26:41] and talk to their people or whatever

[00:26:43] but yeah

[00:26:44] I mean marketing

[00:26:46] is not sales

[00:26:48] I mean we know that right it's like

[00:26:50] I say marketing gets them to the door

[00:26:52] but you know once they're at the door

[00:26:55] sales it sales brings in the money

[00:26:57] that's where it is so two completely different animals

[00:27:00] but yeah it's funny how even

[00:27:02] you know a lot of the

[00:27:04] associations I'll speak for

[00:27:06] like a lot of associations

[00:27:08] will bring me in and one in particular

[00:27:10] that really picked me up was insurance

[00:27:12] at one point so

[00:27:14] they would not give

[00:27:16] continuing education

[00:27:18] credits for any

[00:27:20] course that was sales related

[00:27:22] it could be related to anything else

[00:27:24] but as soon as you put sales in there

[00:27:26] they're like nope

[00:27:28] nope we're not giving continuing aid for that

[00:27:31] it was crazy it was like

[00:27:33] there's been so much of a de-emphasis

[00:27:35] on sales

[00:27:37] and like I said that great companies

[00:27:40] especially IBM

[00:27:41] you know I think IBM and I think a lot of the great companies

[00:27:44] years ago they really

[00:27:46] focused on sales they really had a curriculum

[00:27:49] on sales and how to sell

[00:27:51] and that's the most important thing because

[00:27:53] when I get a new sales person

[00:27:55] I teach them sales skills

[00:27:57] because the thing I know is

[00:27:59] I can have a guy with

[00:28:01] 25 years of technical knowledge

[00:28:03] who's seen every situation

[00:28:05] who knows the product inside

[00:28:07] out who everything else

[00:28:09] the problem is he walks through the door

[00:28:11] and he can't even get past the gatekeeper

[00:28:13] to the decision maker

[00:28:15] and if he does he doesn't know what to say

[00:28:17] to get the decision makers attention

[00:28:19] keep the attention

[00:28:21] set the appointment

[00:28:23] to whatever they need to do

[00:28:25] doesn't know how to structure

[00:28:27] you know or what to say in the presentation

[00:28:29] that's all sales

[00:28:31] and you can have all the technical knowledge

[00:28:33] in the world but if I get a 25

[00:28:35] year guy

[00:28:37] and I got a brand new sales guy

[00:28:39] that I've spent three months with

[00:28:41] really ramping up

[00:28:43] and teaching him how to get through

[00:28:45] the way I do it basically is

[00:28:47] I'll teach them the sales skills

[00:28:49] and they get in they get to the decision maker

[00:28:51] they set the appointment

[00:28:53] now when they set the appointment

[00:28:55] they either bring the owner with them

[00:28:57] or they bring one of the other top

[00:28:59] sales reps with them

[00:29:01] now you have technical knowledge

[00:29:03] and you have sales skills

[00:29:05] in the same room but sales skills

[00:29:07] will be technical skills all day long

[00:29:09] you give me somebody who's really good at sales

[00:29:11] and you give me somebody who's really

[00:29:13] good on the technical side like I said

[00:29:15] you give me a guy who's been in sales

[00:29:17] a year and he doesn't understand

[00:29:19] all the products completely

[00:29:21] but he understands sales

[00:29:23] versus the guy 25 years

[00:29:25] I'll take the guy

[00:29:27] all day long

[00:29:29] he's got the sales skills

[00:29:31] he's going to outsell the veteran

[00:29:33] all day long

[00:29:35] you shared with us

[00:29:37] scripting how important that is

[00:29:39] you shared with us mentorship

[00:29:41] and learning from people that have been in these scenarios

[00:29:43] is there anything else that you would say

[00:29:45] contributed to your success

[00:29:47] becoming a top sales person or that people should pay

[00:29:49] attention to like any other factors

[00:29:51] that you think are really critical

[00:29:53] yeah look there are a couple of key

[00:29:55] things number one's activity

[00:29:57] is calling people you got to be making the calls

[00:29:59] 99.9%

[00:30:01] of the time when someone fails in sales

[00:30:03] it's a failure of activity they didn't make enough calls

[00:30:05] to get enough prospects

[00:30:07] to make enough sales the other 0.1%

[00:30:09] of the time someone

[00:30:11] fails in sales they get hit by a bus

[00:30:13] literally 36 years

[00:30:15] every time I've seen someone

[00:30:17] fail in sales it's because they weren't making enough calls

[00:30:19] they weren't putting the work in so

[00:30:21] activity number one

[00:30:23] number two is sales skills so

[00:30:25] if you're making the calls

[00:30:27] and then you get in front of somebody

[00:30:29] you actually know what to say because

[00:30:31] a lot of people are making the calls

[00:30:33] they're not great on what to say they're like the guy

[00:30:35] called on nice today I can get a cheaper

[00:30:37] down the street what's the answer

[00:30:39] and they don't know how to run

[00:30:41] an interview

[00:30:43] on the process or anything

[00:30:45] and so yeah

[00:30:47] activity in sales skills those are the two big ones

[00:30:49] if I had to throw another one in there

[00:30:51] I might say enthusiasm

[00:30:53] enthusiasm motivation knowing why

[00:30:55] you're doing what you're doing

[00:30:57] but it really comes down to assuming

[00:30:59] you a have

[00:31:01] people skills I always tell people when they're

[00:31:03] hiring somebody you got to start with

[00:31:05] someone with people skills you know so we're

[00:31:07] assuming people have the people skills

[00:31:09] once they have that in place

[00:31:11] and once they're internally motivated

[00:31:13] and they're going to go out and

[00:31:15] drive and they don't need somebody looking

[00:31:17] over their shoulder to make sure they're doing what

[00:31:19] they're supposed to be doing it's going to

[00:31:21] make in the calls

[00:31:23] and then know what to say

[00:31:25] when you're making the calls those are the key

[00:31:27] items right on well thank you

[00:31:29] John for joining us and going

[00:31:31] through that is there

[00:31:33] people are interested in your work

[00:31:35] and what you're doing now what's the best way

[00:31:37] they can reach out to you yeah complete

[00:31:39] selling dot com

[00:31:41] I mean my website is probably the easiest so

[00:31:43] it's complete as in total

[00:31:45] complete selling

[00:31:47] dot com and it's John

[00:31:49] Chapin if people are looking

[00:31:51] I don't do a ton of social media but if you're

[00:31:53] going on there it's John J Chapin the

[00:31:55] book is sales encyclopedia the largest

[00:31:57] sales book on the planet yeah and again

[00:31:59] it's yeah email John Chapin

[00:32:01] at completeselling.com

[00:32:03] you know and I always give out my phone

[00:32:05] number my cell phone number which is

[00:32:07] 508-243-7359

[00:32:11] because very few people have the guts

[00:32:13] to call me but it's nice when I get

[00:32:15] to call everyone so on somebody said hey

[00:32:17] you gave out your number so I'm calling you

[00:32:19] but I'm a sales guy so I'm

[00:32:21] accessible you can find

[00:32:23] me that's for sure yeah thank you

[00:32:25] we appreciate it yeah thank you very much

[00:32:27] thank you