Entrepreneurship in the Rep and Manufacturing Industry with Jim Cendoma

[00:00:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, welcome to another episode of Data Crunch. I've been chatting with Jim Cendoma here. He was kind enough to

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_00]: accept an invite to be on the podcast. There's a super interesting background. He's joining us from his garage office.

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_00]: He can tell you a little bit about that as we go here and he's done entrepreneurship.

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_00]: He's been in the manufacturing space, manufacturing rep space,

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_00]: innovation space, just lots and lots of things that I think are going to be really valuable for you all to dig into

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and hear about. So without further ado, Jim, I'll let you kind of introduce yourself and we'll go from there.

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thanks for having me on. You mentioned the garage and it makes me think right away a fundamental rule of

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_01]: entrepreneurship. If you want to catch Marlin, go where the Marlin are.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's why I moved recently to Pittsburgh and I'm back in a garage from a nice office that I had up in

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Corning, New York. So, you know, I started in a garage and now I'm back in a garage.

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. It's where all the magic happens.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's it. Tell us a little bit about your journey, what you've done.

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mean, you've been at this for decades. So tell us a little bit how you got started.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I started, I was very fortunate in that, you know, I was always interested in the manufacturing

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_01]: side of the world. So I was fortunate out of school to get a job offer with Corning Glassworks at the time, now Corning

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Incorporated. And again, fortune followed me through that. I had a lot of mentors and they showed me the ropes and

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: for some reason they liked me and they were willing to show me the the ins and outs of how things operated in the

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_01]: manufacturing world. And heaven forbid if they didn't like it, this particular group, they were old school.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they were out of the 40s and 50s and they put Corning on the map.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And if they liked you, that was good. If they didn't like you, your life was pretty hard.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_01]: For some reason they liked me and I learned a lot of lessons there around project management.

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_01]: But the big lesson I learned is I do not have a corporate mindset.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I have an entrepreneurial mindset. So I left Corning and started my own business.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: There's some clashes there.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's just the way that things happen. And the further you move up the ladder, you think, well, OK,

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_01]: things are pretty bad at this rung on the managerial ladder.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll just move up here and it'll get better. Actually got worse for me.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And I had in my upbringing, all my uncles were independent business people.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I can remember one time had a little clash in the corporate world and I'm walking down the

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_01]: hallway and engineering and I'm thinking, man, what would my dad do?

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And the answer was my dad never would have taken this job to begin with.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_00]: That's good too much. Was it more like the bureaucracy, more like this is just the way things are, even

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_00]: though that's not the best way to do things?

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was communication.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Basically, a lot of it came.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_01]: It was all top down.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So the success that I had, I mentioned mentors, the success that I had was as a young person,

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I came into the hot glass forming world and I'm like, I don't know anything.

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's going to take me here to find out where the men's room is in this factory.

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It was, you know, from one end to the other was more than a quarter of a mile.

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I was willing to listen and take advice from people who had been doing this for a long

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_01]: time and management wasn't willing to do that.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And they couldn't see how they got in trouble because they weren't willing to listen to the

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_01]: people that had put the plan on the map.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, that's true.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_00]: The entrepreneurial mindset is so different, right?

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's more how do we create value in the most efficient way?

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_00]: How do we change things that need to be changed?

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_00]: What needs to happen different in the world?

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of manufacturing rep firms operate like that.

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Oftentimes they're not huge corporations, come with an independent sales kind of mindset.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think a lot of them operate pretty entrepreneurially.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So have you seen that as well?

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_01]: That's it.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so I had a successful project at Corning and I worked with a manufacturer's rep

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_01]: group and we're out to lunch celebrating the fact that this was a successful project.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, during this conversation, the gentleman offered me a job and, you know,

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't see it coming.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I just didn't see that coming.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought we were just out celebrating.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And he says, I think you have more of an entrepreneurial mindset.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And I never forgot that.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I remembered it.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And I thought, okay, that's when it was time to leave.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So unfortunately we became friends, but he had passed away.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And I always remembered that, that, you know, here's another entrepreneur,

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_01]: independent business person that had saw that in me.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So tell, I mean, entrepreneurship, I personally love it.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I've been an entrepreneur all my life.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I like the space so much, the manufacturing rep space as well, just

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_00]: because I think it is more nimble.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_00]: It's more agile.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_00]: It's how do we do honest work in the best way possible, but it's hard, right?

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Entrepreneurship there's not always a safety net and it's a risk, right?

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And so tell me a little bit about that.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_00]: How have you kind of balanced the risk versus the reward of being able to create

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_00]: something and go and make it happen?

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So a question that I get asked is what's it like to be an entrepreneur?

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll say, it's a roller coaster.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_01]: It's tremendous highs and thunderous crashing lows.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And as an entrepreneur, you want to kind of try to smooth out that curve.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, that's a big challenge and it is, it is very difficult.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm getting a little laugh out of the times that we're in now, because

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_01]: it seems like everybody wants to be an entrepreneur.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So risk taking, as you mentioned in your question, risk taking seems to

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_01]: be associated with entrepreneurship when actually in my experience,

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_01]: it's quite the opposite.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So a good entrepreneur will identify the risks and then take every step,

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_01]: work very hard to mitigate those risks or eliminate them.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So we're not gamblers.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_01]: We're just not out there, you know, rolling the dice and hoping that our

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_01]: ideas are our vision of how things can be in the future will happen.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_01]: We actually are very structured.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think a lot of people who enter the entrepreneurship world miss that.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_01]: They think, well, I got to be able to take a risk.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, there's some risk involved.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I left a secure position.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I probably could have stayed there.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, retired from there, but that's the risk.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_01]: The rest of it is identify the risk and say, how can I eliminate that risk?

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_01]: How can I lower that risk?

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I agree with that 100%.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_00]: How would you maybe apply some of that or what have you seen in

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_00]: the manufacturing rep world, the manufacturing world, applying that

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_00]: entrepreneurial mindset and identifying those risks so that your firm can

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_00]: succeed, right?

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_00]: What have you seen?

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a big lesson that I learned.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And you mentioned the word honest.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And so the big lesson I learned is that you have to put things in place

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_01]: to make sure people pay you because there's two different things.

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_01]: There's out there being the entrepreneur, making your promises, you know, and

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_01]: keeping your promises and then there's getting paid in a timely fashion.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So you have to have the instruments in place that makes sure you get paid

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_01]: when you should get paid or if you get paid at all.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you an example.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Curtis, when you, when you don't pay your light bill, what happens?

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_01]: The lights go out.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes I did it as a young family person.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you're struggling.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_01]: You have an unlimited amount of money coming together.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So you sit down with your wife and you say, okay, we only have enough

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_01]: money for one jar of peanut butter.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_01]: What's it going to be crunchy or smooth?

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Crunchy.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the answer.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you say, oh, okay, I've got to pay the grocery bill.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Got to pay the light bill.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Got to pay the heat bill.

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, here's a bill we can push out and you say, all right, we're

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_01]: not going to pay that bill.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to pay that bill late.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And what you don't realize is that it's all about cash flow.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, a lot of the rep firms and things we talk to a lot of them,

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_00]: that cash flow can be lumpy.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, sometimes you're not getting paid 60, 30, 90 days till the

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_00]: manufacturer gets paid and they have to wait to get paid.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, right.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And so the last one to get paid is the manufacturer's rep in a lot of cases.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Even though in your contract, it says that when let's say you sell a piece

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_01]: of machinery in my world, you sell a piece of machinery, $100,000, certain

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_01]: percentage of that gets paid upfront before they start building the equipment.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_01]: When that check hits, I'm supposed to get a commission part of that.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Very rarely does that happen.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to make the phone call and if I don't make the phone call, I'm not

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_01]: going to get the check until the end.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And so in the end, you have to be very, very careful and anybody in

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_01]: the manufacturer's rep world, you have to really, really read your contract

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_01]: because in that very fine print could be hidden a sentence that says,

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_01]: if this project or if it isn't profitable, then we're not going to pay the rep.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I learned that lesson the hard way.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Did that hit you at some point?

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I called them up and they said, well, the project didn't go well.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_01]: We actually lost money on it.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So there's no money in it for the rep.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, Whoa, I did my job.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I went out, made contact, got the specs and actually

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I even told them you quoted it too low.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the other thing.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_01]: You quoted it too low and now you lost money and now I'm getting

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_01]: punished for it, if you will.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So you have to be very, very careful and getting into the rep

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_01]: business is very, very easy.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Finding good principles to represent is hard.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever you found in that vein, if you were to talk about how do

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_00]: you know if you found a good principle or maybe how do you improve

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_00]: relationships with a principal?

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Have you, have you found ways or strategies of being successful at that?

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, for sure.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, so you want to sit down with that principle and you, you

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_01]: know, if they have worked with reps in the past, that's one of my first

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_01]: question, have you worked with reps in the past?

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And if they say no, you know, you're, you're in rocky waters for sure.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Because they don't know how the relationship works.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I signed on board not too long ago with a principal and they, they were

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_01]: half direct and half independent reps.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And the technology was one of the reasons that I signed on for them, knowing

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_01]: full well in my experience, that this type of mix is really, really tough to work.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I bumped right head on into it.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when I brought in a nice order and you know, we're following

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_01]: up and one of the comments I got was from one of the direct guys is, wow,

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_01]: how come we're paying this guy a big commission check?

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_01]: All he saw was the check.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't see all the work that went into getting the specs, making

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_01]: the calls and all the expenses that I accrued bringing home that.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And that is a challenge when you have direct with independent reps.

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, you want to ask them to have they worked with reps before

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and what their structure looks like.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you want to ask, ask them, you know, typically they have

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_01]: a reason for bringing a rep on.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of times, for example, experience I have companies out of Detroit

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: to this day, it always makes me smile.

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_01]: When things go bad in Detroit, when cars aren't selling and all the

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: little shops around Detroit are hurting, they sit back and say, wow,

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_01]: we got to diversify.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_01]: We got to get out of just supplying to automobile manufacturers.

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's take a good example with let's just say it's a material

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: handling company, let's say robotics.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And I experienced this early on.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I was reaching out to robotic companies.

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Now they're all over the place.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_01]: But I was reaching out early on to the robotic companies and they're

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_01]: saying, yeah, you're right.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_01]: We want to get a rep because we want to get out and diversify into other

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_01]: markets and things are down now in the automobile market.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay.

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So we were working along with working along and I bring them a job from

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_01]: the time we signed a contract.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So the time I, I brought him the job, the automobile market took off

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and they're too busy.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_01]: They don't even want to quote it.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_01]: So to this day, all these years I run into the same thing.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It just, it's funny.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So you know, you have to look at why is the company reaching out to get a rep

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_01]: if they've never had a rep before?

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_00]: That's an interesting point too, even beyond kind of the relationship there.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_00]: But how do you recommend people go about thinking about their right?

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_00]: The mix of lines that you have as a rep.

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think the reps are in a really unique position.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Because they can wear the manufacturer and manufacturers could have multiple

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: products that they make, right?

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But the rep can come in and say, well, I have lines from this manufacturer

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and this manufacturer, and then I kind of create this package of products

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_00]: that makes sense for certain situations or they can package things in certain

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_00]: ways, put products together in different ways.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_00]: How do you strategize around the kinds of products you want to tackle

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and watching the market for what you want to do there?

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Have you had success with that?

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a great question.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And the story that goes along with that is you want to pick your lines so

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_01]: that they build on one another.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And a really good example is I had a line of motor controls, AC inverters.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So when you're out, you want to think about, okay, when you wake up in

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_01]: the morning and put your feet on the floor, what's the product that

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to lead with today?

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And you want it to be a product that will lead right into other lines,

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_01]: your other lines.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So you structure it that way.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And the example is you go in and you're selling motor controls.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And guy says, I love your motor controls.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about generating an order.

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, from there it's like, okay, here's the motor that

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_01]: goes with the motor control.

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the gearbox that goes with the motor control.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, here's the tack and all of the feedback sensors that

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_01]: go with the motor control.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're building on all those versus someone who just goes out

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and says, I want to sell a motor.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And the story that goes behind that, I had an inside salesperson

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_01]: working for me and I come in off the road and he's got a big smile on his

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: face and he says, Hey, I just got an order for 10 motors.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, Hey, that's great.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So how are they controlling the motors?

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_01]: What's the motor driving?

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's call them back.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Find out the gearboxes, find out the motor controller.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And then in the end, you can ask them, how would you like to have

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_01]: all this mounted on a plate and you could forklift it off the truck

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and your electrician can wire it up and it's good to go.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And you could see it running before you buy it.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So now you've got all those commissions stacked up.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Plus you've just become a systems integrator.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_01]: This is, you know, pretty much good salesmanship, but to

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_01]: answer your question, you've got to have that mindset of how can I

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_01]: build on each one of those items that I represent?

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Setting that up.

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And you just touched on good salesmanship.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I think over even over and above what you're talking about, making

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: sure you have a good product set and having that mindset to think,

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_00]: well, what goes along with this?

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_00]: How can I pack it?

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_00]: How can I make this easy customer?

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_00]: What about the actual sales prospecting component?

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's huge, right?

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously manufacturing rep firms are sales firms.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_00]: What are some of the best strategies or things you found for

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_00]: prospecting, finding new clients, going out there and building the business?

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So the rep world is lead driven.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of times principals have called me up in interviews to see if we

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_01]: want to sign a contract and they'll say today, they'll say, do you do cold calls?

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll say, no, I don't do a cold call.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And they'll say, well, that could be a showstopper.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_01]: We want reps that do cold calls.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, well, I used to pride myself on doing cold calls 30 years ago.

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't do that anymore because now when I reach out, it's not a cold call anymore.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty warm.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_01]: You found me on LinkedIn.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you pretty much know a lot about me.

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what my hobbies are, what I've done and have I written a book?

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, you know, all this stuff.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's pretty warmed up.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, then you send me a well-crafted email, what you did.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, this is great.

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And then of course we come together and that's how it happens.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_01]: The customer makes time to see you.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what happens.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_01]: They make time to see you based on how you've done your homework,

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_01]: turning a connection into a lead.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Now the thing that, the thing that happens in the sales world and salespeople,

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_01]: we are our own worst enemies in that regard.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_01]: People say, well, sales man, I don't want to talk to a sales guy.

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to talk to a sales rep.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even put sales rep on my business card anymore because

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_01]: sales has gotten a bad name.

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason for that it's our own fault because a lot of sales people,

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_01]: they have broken the number one rule in sales.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And that is you always want to avoid wasting your customers time.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So talk about bringing value to the table.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_01]: When you show up, you've got to bring that value to the table.

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And one of my favorite lines when I was cold calling, I would call up

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'd say, look, I need five minutes of your time to help eliminate a

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_01]: pain point that I already know you have.

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And it could be because I grew up in manufacturing or just

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_01]: through my own study, I realized that.

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So I got a little bit of a long story.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're interested for that one, this is old school story,

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_01]: old school salesmanship.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So I've been trying to get Syracuse, New York Chrysler plant.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been trying to get the C the plant manager and it's taken me

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_01]: three months to get to see this guy.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_01]: There's no LinkedIn.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_01]: There's no social media.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I just know that what happens in a manufacturing plant and I have some

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_01]: value to brand and I'm trying to see this guy.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And I always start at the top.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people try to start at the bottom and work your way up in sales.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll start with purchasing or I'll start with engineering.

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_01]: No, I start with the top.

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_01]: If I can see somebody in the C suite, that's great.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Plant manager.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_01]: It's great.

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's taken me three months to get this guy and I'm in a motel and Syracuse.

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, when you're on the road, you can do a couple of things.

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And I've seen this over my entire career.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you can go to the gym, which is what I usually do,

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_01]: or you can do your homework.

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So the first thing I do is I hit the motel room and I pull out the phone book

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and I look up this guy's name.

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_01]: He's in the phone book.

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So I figure, all right, I was going to go to the gym, but

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_01]: now I'm going to check it out.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So I drive by his place.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Now this is somewhere around stocking, right?

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_01]: You could say so it's a nice house and kind of an exclusive neighborhood,

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_01]: which you would expect plant manager.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's on a corner lot and the lawn perfectly coiffier lawn, two

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_01]: vehicles in the lot.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_01]: One is a Chrysler minivan.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_01]: The other one is a Dodge Viper.

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I cruise around back and there's this big sailboat in the back.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_01]: So what have I learned?

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I've learned a lot about this guy.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, he's very detailed oriented.

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_01]: That lawn is perfect.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_01]: He likes everything in its place.

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_01]: He's got a family, got that minivan and he's got a Dodge Viper.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he is a high performance individual.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we got the sailboat in the back.

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, typically someone who's a sailor out there on the

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_01]: lake, he likes having that command out there against the elements himself.

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So now I've learned a lot.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I've learned it the old fashioned way.

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Now today I just go in and look his name up on social media.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_01]: His picture comes up with a sailboat in the back.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you know,

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_00]: It's easier.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_00]: How do you use the information to get in contact with him?

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_01]: First two things.

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Number one, he's an analytical guy.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I learned from that.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So now if he was a pictorial guy, pictorial guys, you know, they're like,

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_01]: you can go in and say, this is what you have now, which is junk.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is what you could have, which is great.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And he'd go, yeah, I went that over there.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_01]: But analytical guys, they want to see numbers.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_01]: They want to see facts.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_01]: They want to see a lot of stuff.

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm prepared to, to do that.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_01]: So I walk into his office and lo and behold, behind him is the picture of

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_01]: this sailboat on one of the lakes near Syracuse.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just like, so we're in there and he wants to look at putting a robot

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_01]: to do a particular application.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So he wants me to quote him a robot.

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, okay, so let's look at the application because it may be

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_01]: something other than a robot.

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And he says, well, everybody else is pushing a robot.

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_01]: How come you're not pushing a robot?

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, well, I just need to look at the application.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So we went out and planned and looked at the application.

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_01]: We came back and we sat down and I said, I'll tell you what, I think

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to quote something different.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_01]: He said, why?

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, because with a robot and at that time it was a four-axis robot.

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, you only need two axis to do what you need to do on this

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_01]: particular application.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a dedicated application.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So why would you pay $50,000 for each axis when you're not going to use it?

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_01]: You can just do that.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_01]: He said, great quote me that.

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm thinking, okay, fine.

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And on the way out, he said, you're the first sales guy in here

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_01]: that never asked me about my boat.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, that's sales 101.

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_01]: That's for amateurs.

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a pro and I just walked out and I got that order and we developed

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_01]: a good relationship in which he did buy some robots because it was the right

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_01]: application.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So the big takeaways from this are number one, I'm selling from the top down.

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And here's the interesting thing about sales.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_01]: When you go in there and you look at it and you're promoting what everybody

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_01]: else is, then you haven't really differentiated yourself.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_01]: So I set myself apart from all the other guys that are pushing robots,

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_01]: but here's the human nature side of it.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't go out to those other guys and say, quote me, dedicated tooling.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_01]: He just said, Jim's the guy I want to do business with.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So those guys, they don't even know what happened.

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I eliminated those guys right from the get go.

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I like that.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's sort of been said you have to have trust in sales and being

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_00]: reliable, doing what you say.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's sort of like minimum requirement, right?

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But then if, to your point, if you come in and you're like, you can

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_00]: prove that you have their best interest in mind and not your own, like,

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_00]: well, I'm going to sell four axes and it's going to be a huge number.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Really?

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_00]: No, no.

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you only need two.

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So like you have his best interest in mind and he trusts you.

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I explained the difference between a dedicated tooling and flexible

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_01]: tooling, which is what a robot is.

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And it works really, really well.

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, you go in, if you're thinking about closing that order

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_01]: in the back of your mind, if you're thinking, okay, it's taking me

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_01]: a while to get in there.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I know the guy wants a robot.

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm going to get in there and I'm going to close this order.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're not going to get that commission check.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're not thinking about what his best interests are, then

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_01]: you're not going to get the order.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_01]: The only way you're going to get the orders if, if you beat everybody out

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_01]: on price and chances are what you're selling, uh, isn't going to work

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_01]: because you lowered it down to the minimum requirements and it's a poor

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_01]: way to go into a manufacturing setting.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Is there anything else from your experience that you've seen that

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_00]: you just think is really important, right?

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_00]: For manufacturing reps or manufacturers that, that you'd like to share.

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_00]: That you think would help them succeed in business, essentially

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_00]: anything we've missed.

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_01]: The big word for me for that question is integrity and you

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_01]: have to maintain your integrity.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_01]: That's all you have to sell.

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And once you sell your integrity, you can get it back, but it's

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_01]: really, really, really hard.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And so people will say, well, high level of integrity.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And that kind of makes me smile because there are no degrees of integrity.

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_01]: You either have it or you don't.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And a real quick story to go along with that.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So, um, I got an order for some, uh, custom made pieces of equipment.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Now I have an engineering background and I saw the specs.

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I not only saw the specs on this, but I knew the guys

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_01]: because I used to work with them and I'd work with them enough

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_01]: on some other projects that I know, I know how they think.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So the specs say, you know, they need to, they need to accelerate this

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_01]: equipment from zero to whatever RPM in a certain amount of time,

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_01]: maintain torque and all that stuff.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm thinking, all right, so I'm going to give these guys way more

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_01]: than they need because I know once they get this piece of machinery

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_01]: in there and it does what they want it to do, they're going to go,

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_01]: well, let's see what it can do.

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we want it to do more.

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to give them that ability.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I pretty much doubled the specs, everything they needed.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm thinking they're going to just flip out.

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_01]: They're just going to really love this.

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And the guy calls me up and he's really blowing off steam.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, he is cussing me out and I'm not saying anything.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And finally he took a breath and I said, do you still have the

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_01]: the wooden crate that this machine came in?

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And he goes, well, I think so.

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Why?

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, well, create it all up, put it on a loading dock

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'll send a truck over and pick it up.

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_01]: No charge to you.

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And he goes, what are you going to do with it?

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_01]: It's custom made piece of equipment.

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I said, I'm going to take all the drives off of it, all the

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_01]: power train equipment off of it.

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to put it back on the shelf.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to scrap the frame and we'll go on from there.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And he goes, well, that's a little drastic.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And he says, is there, is there anything else we can do?

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, well, actually, uh, there is something we can do.

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I said, we can, uh, put the next bigger size drives on it.

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll credit you for the drives that are on it and, uh, take it from there.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_01]: He says, well, what do we need to do?

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, write me a purchase order for the next size up drives.

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And he says, uh, well, how's that going to work?

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_01]: He said, you know, it's a custom made piece of machinery.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Now this is again, knowing your customer.

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I said, I already put an oversized plate that has the

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_01]: eight holes that you need in it.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And he goes, how'd you do that?

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Why'd you do that?

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, on the off chance that you may want it to go faster.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And he goes, that was really good thinking.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I said, yep.

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I said, you can take those old drives off, put the new ones on a socket

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_01]: wrench and some wiring and you're up and running.

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And he goes, that's great.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Now here's the funny side of the story.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So while he's getting me a purchase order number, I'm getting him

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_01]: a return authorization number takes about 20 minutes.

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_01]: We're back on the line.

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_01]: He gives me the PO number and I said, here's your return

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_01]: authorization number.

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And he goes, ah, won't be necessary.

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_01]: He says, we'll keep those two drives for spares.

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So I could have handled it and said, look, I met your specs.

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I even exceeded your specs.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_01]: You're on your own in my back of my mind.

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I went, okay.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_01]: My integrity is on the line here.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_01]: This order was like $150,000 order.

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, all right, I'm about to take $150,000 hit, but that's okay.

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: If that's what it costs me to maintain my integrity, then okay.

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And once you accept the fact that there's no limit on your integrity,

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_01]: then it opens your mind up for other ways to handle it.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_00]: That's great.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I love that.

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_00]: That's priceless, right?

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Essentially.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And I've used that, you know, and it's like, okay.

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's, it's all over the place.

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody calls you up and interrupts that you're like, okay, I'm about

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_01]: to take a $25,000 hit to my integrity.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Cause like you said, you either have it or you don't.

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But I have a little bit of integrity.

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't work like that.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it doesn't.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_00]: That's cool.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a cool story.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, how can, if people want to work with you, give us a little

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_00]: bit of information on how you help, how to reach out to you, what your group does.

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Sterling innovations group and the, the name of the group is, you know,

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_01]: we're, we're high quality.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_01]: We're sterling, you know, it's a quality and we're innovative people.

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And basically 21 years old now I put together and the idea was, and this

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_01]: is for the entrepreneurial, this came out of the entrepreneurial side.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted to create a real, real space for fledgling entrepreneurs.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And I like to tell everybody we were shark tank before a shark tank was cool.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, you can show up, uh, you can take space in our office

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and everything is there, you know, there's all, everything you need

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_01]: to set up and start a business.

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_01]: But the important thing is you have people around you that will, um,

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_01]: look at your plan, critique your plan, fix it where it needs to be fixed.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Get you to where you're up and running.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And for the first seven years, it kind of worked that way.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_01]: People would come in.

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I was the main driver.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_01]: They were looking for brick and mortar, you know, and they needed

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_01]: a little space to start and, you know, have a conference room.

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So you can talk to people in a professional setting.

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, when, you know, the last thing you want to do is try to have

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_01]: a conversation with the dog in the background, a baby crying, you know,

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_01]: you want, you want to appear professional.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_01]: So that was the whole idea.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Now somewhere along year seven, five guys showed up and

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_01]: they just never went away.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I could, this is like a great team.

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, you guys, it's an incubator.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_01]: You're supposed to start, you know, and then go out.

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And I joked about that.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And so they're, they're the core team.

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_01]: So we have strategist, we have a web content guy.

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_01]: We've got a consultant in all these people came and, uh, they took up

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_01]: residence and their businesses took off and then they liked the concept.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_01]: We said, Hey, we've got a good core team here.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So they're still up in Corning and I've got a lifetime pass to the

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_01]: incubator just by, you know, and we, to have the problem.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_01]: We talked about entrepreneurship.

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So entrepreneurship can be pretty lonely if you're just out there

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_01]: trying to make your way and it's nice to have somebody that's been through

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_01]: that journey and say, look, you, you want to avoid doing this.

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And so we're that group.

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And so most of my lessons have been learned the hard way.

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what Sterling innovations group is that's been a lot of fun for me.

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm guessing, cause I haven't sat down and you know, this, this is

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_01]: a good reminder for me to do that list to all the businesses that we started.

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And we probably over the 21 years, we probably started 15 businesses.

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to say five of them are still gone.

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of it is people find out entrepreneurship is hard.

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not glamorous.

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Like everybody makes it sound right?

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's really hard.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to do this anymore.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_01]: My boss wasn't so bad after all.

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to give me the nine to five and I'll have to think about work

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_00]: afterwards, you know, up middle of the night, wondering what I'm

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_00]: going to do to save my company.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And then this is, I really enjoy talking about this and, and my,

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_01]: my purpose is to help other people.

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_01]: That's my life purpose.

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So whenever anybody approaches me and says, Hey, I got this idea.

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to start my entrepreneurial journey.

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_01]: One of the questions I asked them, I said, you know, is your family on board with

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_01]: this and it's really funny because I'm talking about everybody in your household.

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm talking about the wife, the kids, the dog, the cat, the fish.

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody's got to be on board with what you're doing.

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, because if not, you've got one foot in divorce court

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and you don't even know it.

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's one of the questions.

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_01]: First questions I'll ask.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And a funny story is a guy came up that I knew he said, Hey, you and I've been

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_01]: working together.

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to do what you're doing.

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_01]: It looks great.

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll help you out.

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_01]: So we start.

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And I asked him, I said, everybody on board in your family.

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And I knew his wife.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I said, Hey, is Joan on board?

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Joan's on board.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Great.

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I kid you not true story.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Two days later, I'm walking down market street, the main street

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and Corning, and I get the center way square Jones there.

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_01]: She said, Jim, you got to talk them out of this.

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Like sort of on board, but not really on board, right?

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the integrity thing.

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't quite work if you're sort of on board entrepreneurship.

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I think is, is a lot of fun.

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot of work, but you're right.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_00]: You got to have people supporting you.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, my wife, Maggie, she's my best ally because, you know, she'll

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_01]: say, what are you having on about go for it?

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm just waiting to make sure everybody's on board.

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's it.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm lucky to have the same thing.

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_00]: My kids are young four and five, and we did a entrepreneurial day for them

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and their friends yesterday.

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So they all came over and like, they made lemon ricotta waffles.

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, all right, you got to give free samples.

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_00]: You can prove your product is good.

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And you got to show like the healthy ingredients you use to

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_00]: make the ricotta waffles and like all this stuff in there.

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, sweet.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's fun.

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_00]: It's fun to have the family participate as well.

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you brought up a good thing.

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And I always say there's an entrepreneurial flame in everybody.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a little pilot light.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I truly firmly believe this, even though some people say, well,

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_01]: entrepreneurship it's not for everyone.

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I believe everybody has this little flame and depending upon

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_01]: what happens in your life, something could just turn on the fuel

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_01]: and that flame could become a burning desire.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It could be getting fired from a job.

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_01]: It could be loss of a loved one.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_01]: It could be you're in the middle of a divorce, you know, and

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_01]: you've always wanted to go.

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Things are going to hell anyhow.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't I go start my business?

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, kind of thing.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I truly believe that I'm going to do a little role reversal here.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me about flow.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_01]: You got it on your shirt there.

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Flow has been great.

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_00]: The brief story is I own a company called data crunch.

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Like we talked about the crunchy peanut butter, right?

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I ran that for about five years with a good friend of mine.

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And we did like 200 or so projects for lots of companies in data science AI.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_00]: We built a team of about 30 folks and that ended up getting acquired.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_00]: But during that time, someone named Craig Shove, he owns a manufacturing rep firm

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_00]: here in Raleigh contacted us to do a project for him that turned into a

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_00]: year's long relationship of building software for him because he couldn't

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_00]: manage all the crazy data that manufacturing sales reps have to deal

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_00]: with right PDFs and all these formats and all this crazy stuff.

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And he wanted better insight.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So we started working on that for him.

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Fast forward, data crunch gets acquired.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I pulled out sort of the flow software from that acquisition.

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Cause I thought it could be something that we could pursue potentially in

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_00]: the future, you know, we showed it to a couple of Craig's friends and,

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and they were like, that's exactly what we need.

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_00]: We're like, all right.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So just, you know, as an entrepreneur, to be able to see something that

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_00]: fits the market so well, that you show it to someone and they're

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_00]: like, that is exactly what I need.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Can I get that right now?

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Like a product that sells itself practically.

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And we found that in flow because we were able to build it based

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_00]: on Craig's business, right?

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's exactly what he needed.

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_00]: We built it for him and then other manufacturing sales reps

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_00]: who have the same problems.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's not a lot of folks servicing those people.

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of a hidden forgotten niche, honestly, you know, that,

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the vision here is to help manufacturing sales reps be

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_00]: essentially eliminate all their busy work, right?

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you don't have to do data entry.

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to like look through your product catalog to find insights.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_00]: We have AI that can pull it out for you.

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you don't have to worry about getting paid because we'll

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_00]: track all your commissions and tell you when there's mistakes.

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_00]: All that kind of stuff logs you down, you know?

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_01]: As I said at the top of the conversation, tracking

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_00]: commissions, that's a big one.

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Firms lose hundreds of thousands of dollars from, from not being

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: able to reconcile commissions.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy.

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Like they earned it, but they didn't get paid for it.

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember my first year.

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, all right.

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I got dinked.

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I lost $2,500 in commissions.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_01]: That's okay.

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_01]: 35 years later, let's just say I averaged two grand a year loss

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_01]: in commissions, that's a chunk of change.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_01]: You really, really did find a nice void in the market.

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_00]: That's why we were like, well, we're going to do this.

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mean, it's again, to your point, I think it's nice to

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_00]: feel like what you're doing is needed and it's helpful.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And, and again, it's just, I think there's a lot of potentials.

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_00]: That's flow.

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we're doing.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Is there anything else you wanted to share?

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I know if anyone of our audience wants to talk to Jim, reach out to him on

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_00]: LinkedIn, make sure you do your research first and it's a crafted message.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, hit his website.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you have a book as well, right?

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I do have a book and thank you for mentioning that.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, it's called, uh, PEP or profit and extreme performance.

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And again, I'm a storyteller, so it's a series of, of stories.

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Each chapter is a story pertaining to cash flow or differentiating yourself

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_01]: all along the items that we touched on today.

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we'll include all of those links in the show notes.

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So if anyone's interested in that, hit the show notes, hit the links.

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Jim, thank you so much and we'll see you all next time.

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.